We were wondering what level of safety other swingers are using these days? My husband and both prefer to go with a condom, but we've occasionally gone without if we feel extra comfortable with a couple, and if they ask to do it bare. Is this crazy? From the sound of the news these days you'd think it might be. How strict are you folks?

You WHAT?!?

Just kidding - we've let this slip a couple of times ourselves. We do have some rules, though, and we'd never go unprotected on a first time encounter. We think of it the same as with any sexual partner - singular or plural. If the trust is there then we don't worry too much. But keep in mind that trust takes time!

I don't remember where I heard this, but it was that swingers have a lower occurrance of STD's than the population at large. Can anyone confirm if they've heard likewise?

We pretty much play it safe and always use a condom with our new partners. As we get to know them better and meet their other play partners we may move on to bareback if everyone is comfortable with the idea.

As far as STD's in the Lifestyle, we've never actually met anyone who has or that has even known anyone that has contracted one. Can you get one? Yes, like anything else unprotected sex may end up with some sort of STD. In our opinon though. Couples in the lifestyle are of a much lower risk factor than in the single population.

No matter what, do your homework and be comfortable at what you're doing. No one will fault you for keeping yourself and your loved ones safe.

Playfully,

Tom & Bonnie

STD's seem to be almost nonexsistant in the lifestyle.
For real facts on the big one in the general population check out the CDC website: http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/stats/hasr1302/table5.htm

Forgive the criptic URL seems the site doesn't permit web addresses in post.

[moderator note - URL problem fixed!]

Note that if you don't have sex with IV drug users, don't use them yourself and refrain from having sex with bi-sexual men the odds of your becoming infected are about 1/100th that of being hit by lightning on a clear day.

In reply to CloseEncounters:
Having sex with a bisexual male is just as safe as having sex with his wife. A bi sexual male is not a gay male. Bi male activity has been happening behind closed doors for many years. Bi-Male husbands number into the millions, and that husband is just as safe as his wife.

Well, not quite, unless of course she is menstruating. It's a fluid transfer thing :-)

Time for a reality check, people in our lifestyle are getting STDs the same as everyone else. We know so many people that have gotten them it makes you worry about being with anyone new at all. I think going to Clubs now is just crazy there is no safe sex going on there, and you don't know these people and at some of them everyone is doing everyone....We went to a social a few months ago and I had a guy try to enter me in a swimming pool I have no idea who he is. and this was happening to alot of people that went along with it.
So we need to wake up before this lifestyle becomes the new statistic.

SindeeNRob said a mouthfull (no pun intended) Herpies and Genital warts is a problem as well as clamidea(sp). A condom is no protection according to the CDC for HPVor genital warts. These are the most common problems, STDs, in swinging. Some (herpies) may even be transmitted from the mouth to the genitalia. Many can be spread from the genitals via oral sex... So where does that leave us..... You can be careful with your partners and use protection as you deign necessary or not as you prefer. The bottom line is, however, if you use common sense and protection until you are confortable, great but know the risks you are taking and if they are too much for you, maybe this is not the lifestyle for you.
Ray xplorr94248

In reply to CloseEncounters:
thinking that having sex with gay or bi sexual males or his wife increaces your chances or getting HIV or a STD is wrong. Just because they are bi or gay does not mean they are infected. Everyone who is having sex can get infected, if it be by sex, a tainted blood tranfusion or sitting on a soiled port-a-potty seat with a open sore on your rump. Just because a male is bi or gay does not make your add better or worse. What about bi or gay ladies? I know when I go down on a female there is quite a lot of fluid exchanged.

We weren't "thinking" anything, only quoting from the CDC statistics. We offer no personal opinion and simply gave a link to the real facts as compiled by the CDC. It is up to each individual to use the information to form their own opinions.

I know there are many who go to clubs who choose not to use protection, but to come out and say that NO ONE is using protection in clubs is a bit of a gross generalization.
I help manage a fairly new club in Indiana, and I know for a fact many of our members are having safe sex. (Please note, I know the only "safe sex" is abstinance, so I use the term interchangeably and rather loosely with "using protection".) I have to empty the trash numerous times a week, and also am the one who goes to the agency who provides us with fish bowls full of condoms on a regular basis for free. lol We also have dental dams on hand most of the time.
We work hard to promote safety in our club, and not only place numerous condoms in each room, but have bowls full placed around the club and are preparing to put up a bulletin board with information on stds, including chlamydia, HPV, hep C (which is running rampant in Indiana), HIV and others.
Of course, it is personal choice of those in the lifestyle as to whether they have safe sex or not, but I can assure you that there are some in the club scene who are working very hard to educate our members, without using scare tactics, or going to extremes.
In all honesty, I don't have any idea of how much other clubs are doing to promote safe sex, other than in posted notices or their rules. I would love to hear what types of things they are doing...perhaps we have missed something?
Those of us on staff are well aware of a few very "active" members who do not use protection when they play and we have nothing to do intimately with them or any partners we know they have been with...It is nothing personal, and we adore them, but do not want to put ourselves at risk, so I do undertand your point of view completely.
I didn't mean to get up on my soapbox...Really. I just saw this post and wanted to let some of you know that there are some of us in the club scene trying very hard to keep our members and lifestyle from becoming ugly statistics.
Peace,
Lisa

HOW WELL DO YOU KNOW YOUR PARTNER(S)? That is the question you should ask yourself. We always use protection on our first encounters with other couples and maybe more often than that. We are very lucky and blessed however to have a very close knit group of swinger friends who always watch out for themselves and each other. Just remember that whomever you have sex with, you are also having sex with their partners. Always assume for your first encounter or two that your new partners have engaged in risky activity, just to be safe. After all, you really don't know them.

In reply to swingerspalace:
Then why are there increasing numbers of bisexual men and women contracting aids?

Wow this is a heated conversation. First, I'm a physician. Second, I am a member of the American Association of HIV Medicine. Third, I swing. Fourth, see the CDC site for all sorts of the stats. Fifth, for the attorneys out there, this information is provided informally and is not intended to be a guide on which readers are to base decisions.

BI-MALES: it all depends on your sexual activity. Men who ONLY engage in oral activity with other men are probably no worse off than women who do peform oral on men. UNLESS, you engage in rough deeply insertive oral sex and are the reciever. New stats show that if the insertive partner is HIV+ you have a good chance of becoming infected when engaging in rough oral sex. That stat goes up if you are altered [drugs/etoh]. This oral stat goes for women too. If you are a Bi-male and engage in any type of insertive activity then you fall into the category of MSM [men having sex with men] and the stats show that those individuals, especially men who are anally receptive, historically have the highest risk for contracting HIV. So should there be a seperate category for oral Bi-males and full Bi-males? [Nothing personal just stating the facts]

The biggest STD is still chlamydia [it can infect the throat and be passed oral-genital but genital-genital is by far the most common]. So if your throat is sore - don't engage in activity; its probably not but could be Chlamydia but do you want to make others sick?
Depending on who you talk to then comes Herpes, Gonorrhea, Genital Warts and Syphilis [which is making a come back of sorts]:

HERPES - from cold sores on your mouth to the genital lesions. Both can infect you in either place. So if you feel the tingle of a cold sore don't play. You are shedding virus and WILL infect someone. In fact, approximately, 15% of those with recurrent cold sores/genital lesions not medications will shed infectious virus even though they feel or see no evidence of an imminent outbreak. There are meds on the market that stop/decrease outbreaks and decrease viral shedding . . . please take them. Condoms, Courtesy,

GONORRHEA - again, mostly genital to genital spread but can infect throats and be spread that way too. Condoms/Dental Dams

GENITAL WARTS - caused by a virus. The wart/lesion can be removed. Once removed and area healed no further transmission risk. I've seen these occur on fingers too and that be a mode of transmission. Condoms. Awareness.

SYPHILLIS - remember that odd ulcer/sore on or near your penis/vagina that didn't hurt and healed up after a few days? Well, that was Syphillis!!! And just b/c the sore went away doesn't mean you still don't have it and are capable of passing it on. Go directly to your local STD clinic or Pvt MD. Condoms.

HIV - you still need to be pretty damn unlucky to catch it or you engage in risky behaviour [IVDU, MSM, Bi-Males > heterosex, lesbian, bi-females]. Those are the stats and if you don't like them then change your behaviour to a less risky group or abstain. Remember, IVDU includes members of all those other groups who "use" which is one way the virus "moves" between groups. One word - don't ever brush your teeth vigorously, let alone floss before swinging - the micro cuts in your gums are perfect entry ways into your body for infection. Gargle with Listerine and chew tartar control cum. Also, don't shave your genitalia that same day for the same reason . . . micro cuts . . . shave at least the day before. Also, LEAVE THE LIGHTS ON SO YOU CAN SEE. This isn't a physical exam but definitely visually inspect your partner[s] as the play progresses to become more intimate.

HEPATITIS - Hep A and B are far more common and easier to catch by engaging in sexual activity than HIV. Hep C - no one know for sure if Hep C is transmitted sexually but about 10% of cases out there the mode of transmission/infection cannot be determined - so people think it may be sex. Then there are Hep D, E and G. Only one to worry about in this group is D but it usually is carried along with B and transmitted in the same manner.

Don't know where that leaves any of you. But I would definitely recommend always using a condom with people - even if you know them unless you have formed some type of closed swinging group. And even then, insist on everyone being tested before abandoning the protection. How often should people who swing be tested? Thats tough. Personally, we go every 6 months but if you are really active or have risky/no condom encounters then every three/two months perhaps monthly would not be a bad idea.
Also, as a side note. It is my understanding that the adult entertainment industry tests monthly and uses the PCR DNA test [which is much more sensitive than the normal antibody screening test typically given at clinics]; the incident of HIV in adult performers is waaay low. See the AIM website for info.

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RoxanneBrett

Ooops CORRECTION!!!

GENITAL WARTS - the warts can be removed. But there is still the opportunity to transmit because the virus lives in the body and will cause other warts to form from time-to time.

Its 220am, I shouldn't be writing this. Looked over everythign else . . . it appears to be kosher. Goodnight, Adios, Ciao and Aloha.

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RoxanneBrett

In reply to roxannebrett:
Thank you for saying it like it is!!!!! ToO many swingers (couple (a))think that after they play with a couple(couple (b)) a few times they are home free... If couple (b) play without protection and then couple (a) plays with them without protection, you are at risk to play without protection. I see too many couples here on the east coast play without protection and then wonder why you will not play without....

For better or worse I have straddled the line on this issue. When my ex and I meet new people or if we visited a club we always used condoms. That being said, we were also the type that when we had some experience with a couple over time there would usualy be less and less condom use. At one time we had a regular group that we trusted and barebacking was the norm.

It is clearly a case of risk management. Although it couldn't qualify as a 100% solution, we took responsibility for what risk did exist, and got to know all our playmates to a level where that risk was acceptable. We talked with our partners, we let them know that was how we felt, and if they weren't comfortable with it, then we would part on good terms. (for the most part...lol)

On a more esoteric point, I absolutely HATE performing oral sex on a man wearing a condom. I might as well suck a balloon, and if the condom has any kind of numbing agent on it, then my mouth goes numb.

In reply to LocalMan: that doesnt make any sense to me....if you think about it... weather its one person or a couple that swings...if the person/or couple swings often and has many "friends" or has had many...then dont you think they would have the same risk of a single person? i think anyone should use protection these days...if you dont ..its a pretty stupid way too have fun

In reply to coupleme:
In reply to coupleme:
There are papers listed under CDC files from studies done by other than CDC and directly relate to different lifestyles... It seems that the incidence of many STD's is lower among people in the swinging lifestyle than in the "normal"/ general populations. I would think that one reason for this might be that people in the lifestyle seem to be more self protective than the general populations. Someone used the term "risk management". It seems that many swingers play within relatively small circles... or maybe the term should be circle of friends. It's easier to maintain relationships than to find new ones. Thus, it would seem that the risk is somewhat better managed. I would, however, caution that if the odds are lower in this lifestyle, that if you are the one in 10,000 to get something deadly it doesn't matter what the odds WERE you ARE the statistic not an ODDS probability.

Also a note about HPV & HSV. I recently saw some statistics on these two risks. First of all there is absolutely no difference between HSV1 and HSV2 except where they reside. As for getting HSV1 genetally... you certainly can transfer it, however if the article was correct, then it is now HSV2, once transferred. Further that some 93 -97% of the population will test positive for HSV and since there is no way to distinguish between the two .... chances are that you/we would test positive. HPV is another one that over 90% of the general population will test positive for. There seems to be some 250 +/- variations and only a few are the ones that can cause sterility or cancer or death etc. Kids generally catch HPV playing with other kids or playing in the dirt... So chances are that you/we would also test positive for HPV also. Of greater concern should be the new and resistant strains of syphillis and gonorrhea. IN a real sense, you are more likely to get chlamydia or a strep throat than some of the other STD's available.

Please do not use this as a basis for making a decission about whether or not to use protection. Do your own resesrch and I would suggest that you DO use Protection... As the old TV commercial used to say... "The life you save, may be your own"......

In reply to roxannebrett:

ROXANNE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks for that info.

I feel like taking a few megadoses of tetracikes just to cover the bases......

Though not on your list of STD's...let's not forget those little critters called 'crab lice'......

'm'

Whew! I think I'm going to empty, clean, and shock the hot tub.....

While in the life style with a partner and now alone, i always do safe sex. unless it is with a couple or the lady half of the couple, that i know well. most men/couples in the lifestyle do practise safe sex.
j